Official Luthiers Forum!

After reading various posts on inlay over the last few months, I realize most of us have scrapped some inlays, usually attributing it to poor technique.
Remember, you're usually capable of much more than you think you are!!! .

Here are a few things which can go wrong with the process without much "help" from your technique.

Bad blades: I've had countless pieces ruined because a new blade is bad. ex. kerf not equal on both sides. This seems to rear it's ugly head when doing extremely small lettering or intricate logos.

Shaling: Shell material has grain. Sometimes,(usually on a half hour long delicate piece), slight pressure causes the shell to separate, usually at a 45 degree angle. That's mother nature

There are more, but let's see what the rest of you have had happen.
Some days it's best to put it down, walk away and come back fresh. It's not always your hands causing the trouble.

_________________
Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

Yea, I don't know if it's just me, but while doing real small stuff and tring to hold a tight line, after a long period the line starts to move or my focus gets off. Maybe it's just old age kicking in, but like Paul said the best thing to do is take a break and walk away, then when you come back it all looks better.
                          Red

Paul, where are you buying your blades? I have been buying the Rio Grande blades. I am curious to hear what you use.

_________________
Brock Poling
Columbus, Ohio
http://www.polingguitars.com

I love inlay work and I am not horrible at it. Paul Bordeaux has some great tips. To this may I ad , that I use a pearl saw to cut but I use a small dremel sander and files to clean up the inevitable rough egde or to clean up a sweeping radius.
   Anyone that does pearl and is self taught please treat yourself to a class. Paul has them and I took my course through custom pearl in Malone.
   I am not an artist but I am good at processes. These guys can teach the process to us dummies and we can use patterns to make us look like artists.
John Hall
PS you will learn more in a week that you can teach yourself in years

1) Recon stone cracking at all angles and at any time, normally through the entire piece or slab- why?
It's recon stone...

2) Shaling- gets you every time.. I hear ya Paul!

3) Size 06 blades breaking constantly- why? They are size 6 blades...

4) Projects taking way longer than expected because they are so complex. Why? They are very complex...

If every inlay seems to get harder as you go take heart- it's because your standards are increasing. I have major issues with almost all my inlays anymore- even the smaller truss covers. All I see are mistakes and flaws. Paul you must know what I mean! Every now and then I am really happy, but it seems less and less.


Craig Lavin

www.handcraftinlay.com

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com

Craig and Paul, (and anyone else with this experience) I have a question. I've just finished inlaying two FB's with a snowflake pattern, about 15 or 16 pieces on each board. No problem on one of them, all sanded flush and looks nice. On the other board, after sanding,(all gold MOP) I lost the gold on one piece. It now looks like white MOP. Is there any trick to restore the color, or is it gone for good? Is replacement the only option?

Thanks,
Ronold man38808.9606018519

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

That's the thing about the gold and black pearls. They are only so much of the surface color. Both are white at a certain point. Some odd and seemingly more hard to get pieces are color fast all the way through, but they are not common.
The best way to see how deep the color goes it really just to look at the piece from the side. You can see the variation in it that way. Of course it may not be that way in the whole blank. You get a feel for it after a while, otherwise it's best just to inlay gold or black pearl as flush as possible. Sanding off the surface layers is often risky.

You'll need to rout it out. There is no way to restore it.

Good luck.
Craig

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com

    I've had enough shell with very thin color layers to inlay that I've now adopted the technique of keeping only about .002" to .004" proud of the final surface when my rout of the cavity is complete.

    Wth some of the Abalone and color MOP that we all get for inlays or rosettes, the good and most vivid color can sometimes be only .005" thick and, beyond that, the color is dull or even gone. As the pieces are sanded, the color disappears and they have to be routed out ad recut and inlaid. It's frustrating, but it happens.

   Another thing that has caused me to adjust my practice is that when a small piece gets away from me as I break through the final cut and complete it and falls to the floor and disappears, it is very difficult to find sometimes. I keep the floor area around my inlay bench clean and still have a hard time finding them when they drop and take a bounce. I now clip a towel to the bench under my cutting platform and tuck it into my belt to act as a sort of net for those pieces that get away occasionally. It saves me the time of either searching for them or recutting them.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega GuitarsKevin Gallagher38809.1560416667

Thats a great tip about the towel

I don't know how many times I have spent a lot of time crawling around looking for a small piece of pearl !

Thank You

Good tip with the towel Kevin.

Man, I thought I was the only one on my hands and knees hunting through the clutter for those little bits. One design I ended up on my knees looking around the floor for longer than the whole rest of the process took.

It seems like you look for the dropped bit for a sooo long, and then, just when you decide "oh bugger this, I my as well cut another and stop wasting time" there it is, in the same spot you already looked a half dozen times...I think it's a conspiracy.

From now on when ever I'm cut'in shell, I'm going to keep a couple of dozen unshucked live oysters in the beer fridge. If I drop a bit on the floor, I will start shucking and eating them alive one by one, washing them down with a nice coldie until that son of a bit-o-shell comes to it's senses and gets back up there on the bench were it belongs.

The way I see it, I can't loose either way

Cheers all

Kim   

Thanks for all the help fellows. I'll cut a new one.

Hey, here's a tip for finding those small errant pieces. If you are pretty sure of the area where it dropped, hold a piece of nylon stocking over the end of the shop vac and suck away. I've found my wife's contacts this way. I even sucked one back up out of the bathroom sink drain this way.

Ron

_________________
OLD MAN formerly (and formally) known as:

Ron Wisdom

Somewhere in the middle of Arkansas......

Whoa! This is a great place! Cool tricks guys, Thanks!

Ron, that is a very good idea, sure would save time hunting. Thanks

_________________
My Facebook Guitar Page

"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Just make sure your wife's not WEARIN' 'EM at the time!

_________________
http://www.presnallguitars.com

Brock- I use the rio grande blades too; tried their "laser blade gold" but went back to standard after losing many pieces with blade deflection!

Ron- Craig is right on the mark. Old mother nature wins again . Also, I had extra shop time last night; by mentioning nylons and vacuum in the same sentence, I was able to spend some quality time with the cat and the sofa So much too do in the shop... Guess I'll ask again tonight.

Kevin- I too have used the towel technique. It replaced the temper tantrum technique often employed in searching 10 minutes for a piece that took 1 minute to cut! One addition to searching the floor; a powerful light source shone across the floor at a low angle may also help you find those little pieces.
When cutting some tiny parts, I've tried a few other things too:
1. Cutting most of the pattern, then carefully wicking thin CA near the beginning of the cut to retain some strength and keep it intact upon completion.(Of course this is a judgement call depending on careful use of the CA, time needed to dissolve the CA,etc...)
2. When coming to the end of a cut, I sometimes place another blank of the same thickness behind the blank being cut from,(not under), then use a flat needle file or piece of steel shim as a clamp bridged across the two blanks to hold the edge of the cut piece and prevent it from falling when the cut is completed.

3. When cutting any delicate shape,small or large, rather than cutting in from the edge of the blank, pierce,(drill), a very small hole near a point or wide curve on the pattern to slide your blade through. I use this more than any other tip. It keeps the shell much more rigid as you cut the pattern and is quite easy to do as you get accustomed to it.

Craig- Man, we need to talk!!! Just when you think you're getting better, you realize you seem to be better at finding your own mistakes!

_________________
Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

more mistakes

Craig

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com

My biggest complaint about cutting inlays is with my hand holding the
piece being cut -- does anyone else's hand and fingers get so cramped
you can hardly hold onto the piece? Sometimes I have to go do something
else for awhile to give my hand a rest.

As far as a tip is concerned, I long ago did away with the traditional
"birdsmouth" cutting board. I use a board with a 3/8" hole in the center
and just a saw blade kerf from the edge into the hole in the center. It
allows for much more support area for the workpiece.
Craig

A tip I picked up somewhere was to stick the pieces just cut out to a piece of low-tack tape doubled-over, like two-sided, just to keep them lightly stuck down on your work surface. But then they can stick to the bottom of your shoe if you still manage to drop one. I walked around a day and a half once, tearing my hair out, wondering what could have possibly become of it....

_________________
now known around here as Pat Foster
_________________
http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I don't see how I could cut without one. The smaller the pieces get the more you need something to "pin" them into as you get ready to remove them from the blank after they are cut. I just litteraly got finished cutting out the OLF guitar headstock inlay. Some of the pieces are most likely 1mm in size. Without a birds beak they would be lost. By the way- I did lose about 4 pieces during cutting, one whole blank got sucked away, and three pieces fell to the floor.

The more you do it nothing changes. Same crap, just more often


Don't feel too bad guys...

Pics soon.
Craig L

_________________
www.handcraftinlay.com